What in the World?

a3This page contains interesting email messages I’ve received. It isn’t intended to make fun of anyone, well maybe just a little bit. I really just want to show people what kind of thinking is out there. The messages will be displayed unedited and just as I receive them (with the exception of editing for language). I don’t mind being attacked in such a ruthless manner, but I do find it sad. It hurts my heart that there is so much deceit and hatred out there among Christians.

Some of those who write to me have chosen to remain anonymous. I’m not really sure why they refuse to give their names and email addresses. I can only surmise that it is so they can just vent without worry about hearing back from me. My guess is that they wish to remain closed minded and refuse to see anything but their own ignorance. Others have shared their name and email address. I will post the names of those who share them with me. Anyway, I hope that, as you read this, it will give you a greater understanding of the urgent message of this site.

I will update this page as more messages like this come in so stay tuned.

From: Daniel Sanchez – kjv1611only@mail.com

Message Body:
i agree the niv tells the truth about the state of the nation. lucifer is the light bringer, if you read rev. 22:16 rev.2:28 luke 1:78-79 isaiah 14:12 and
2 peter 1:19 silly kjv is the only bible that ive found out of 20 translations that says this Jesus of Nazareth is the day star and not satan or lucifer
……hell satan…. and as the niv says also in job 3:9 Dont let the light shine…… Trust those spirits that say spiritual warfare they never lied to before………. and they hate the kjv also…..there is no light ( in hell)
but dont worry the devil never lied before…….did he?? just do what the catholics do pray to angels and call a man father and worship dead people (saints) and since jesus is a piece of bread save all your fecal matter and pray to that also….mayby even put it on your christmass tree because jesus likes to be an ornament we look at, even if its only once a year. one more thing a public domain bible like the kjv that one dot cant be changed in must be the devils bible because a man has the copyright to ALL the others… Dont look into this any further because anything anyone tells you is the truth even its the truth only on some other planet.

From: William Young – bilbo39564@gmail.com

Subject: John the Baptist

Message Body:
Steve John the Baptist preached repentance Jesus came to John to be baptized Steve your a agent from Satan a church suppose to live right sorry if your panty waist hero’s have beguiled you your evil and Satan is your master steve

From Anonymous:

From S Jarvis:
I am here to say that the independant fundamental baptist are not a cult by any means. I belong to an independant fundamental baptist church and it it full of bible preaching bible believing (link added by site Admin) christians. There are good and bad in more churchs than just the baptist but what happened was because of sex offenders that shouldn’t have been in the church and bad leaders not because they were baptist.

From Jim:
The surviving Scion Clan of Scotland has always nurtured a belief, based on the text of Apixa and God that he who hath followed the doctrine of Constantine and committed sin, based on the words of a book called the Bible, shall be publicly dismembered.

From Anonymous:
go to hell, this group is nuts, get real,what the hell are you thinking!

From Mrs. Demay:
I’m mortified at this website you’ve created and disgusted at the fact that you seem to be lumping all IFB churches into the same category. IFB is a denomination, however, each church is autonomous. As a very wicked, headstrong adult I started attending an IFB church (which I am proudly still a member of). The Lord used my pastor and this church as a tool to reach my cold heart and I got saved at the age of 31. I have NEVER been made to feel that the Lord is just waiting to crack down on me if I take a wrong step. The only God that has been preached in my church is a loving God who died for me, a sinner, who can do nothing to earn His love. I can not earn God’s love because He has given it freely. My church is a blessing to me, my husband and my kids and without it I’m just not sure how God would have reached us. I will defend the church because it is the bride of Christ. From your website I gather that it’s possible the one single church you attended had people in it who did things that were not encouraging to you as a child and young Christian. I’m sorry for that and know that the Lord God will hold accountable anyone He gives authority to. As a new Christian, I have noticed that people can also be very bitter and because of their bitterness and unforgiveness, Satan uses every negative event in their life (no matter how big or small) to continue to hold them captive and as long as bitterness and unforgiveness is held onto by the “victim” that person is oppressed by Satan to the point that they are used by him as a pawn to damage Jesus Christ, and if not him, at least his bride (the church). You are entitled to your opinions and statements, but for the record, I want you to know that not every church is the same. I know your defense is “I’m not saying all IFB churches are alike” but your website gives the impression that they are. What you’re doing (by lumping them all together) is wrong and it’s not biblical. After having attended a few different denominations of churches for 31 years of my life, my soul was finally saved in an IFB church. You should know as well as I do that there are very few churches in this world preaching the true gospel. There could be many souls just like mine who are looking for a good church to go to to hear the gospel and I pray that they do not come across your website because it was clearly designed to steer people away from the IFB church, possibly keeping them from hearing the true gospel. For that, just like those who you say were abusive to you, you will be held accountable.

From Eddie:
When the T.V. show ABC has to be your authority, you really taken a step backwards but it is froward. 🙂

I guess you would have been against stoning in the O.T.?
I guess you would have been against the laws of separation in the O.T.?
I guess you are against everything that is legal?

You reasoning don’t even have a rhyme to it. It is just a lost wondering in the wilderness. How many years will you stay there?

You want a church, with no pastor, no rules, no judgments, no rebuke, no instruction, no leadership.

You want a church, which is not new to the idea of “every man did that which is right in his own eyes”. Nothing new under the sun.

ABC – CBS — NBC — Foxnews are not my authorities on why some one spanked my butt when I was little. You poor little thing. I would love for you to post any comments from your parents on your life as a child.

I double dog dare you to let mom and pop write about you.

Folks not one Bible verse was quoted in his offensive out line of abuse.
Folks not one Bible verse is ever quoted just his opinions of how he feels he was wronged.
Folks this guy is not a spiritual leader, called man of God, nor ordained in the ministry. Just a bystander who draws in others who led the rebellious life and wants to cut all scriptures about punishments.

What a unbelievable mess this guy writes about.

2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

He is definitely in LOVE WITH HIMSELF!!

Since he made a blanket statement and judged ALL IFB churches – I will make just one direct statement that this dude is not all knowing and is just in love with himself. His writings demonstrate it completely!

From Eddie:
Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Php 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

These are just two verses that deal with those who causes troubles. Poor fellow got his feelings hurt and not he rambles on as if the church is wrong for caring out the laws of God.

Doctrines are exact and are not left up to my feelings when the pastor rebukes me, oh, I’m sorry, you don’t have a pastor, you have a home study.

1Tim 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear. Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

I guess you have taken the pen-knife to these parts of the Bible.

Oh well, nice try. Truth is Truth — folks any one who is NOT in church and trying to lead others against the church? Do you really have to have someone to explain that to you?

Gal 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews’ religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

At different times there has always been the religious and lost who has persecuted the church and its structure. This guy is no different.

Don’t fall for his bitterness and anti-church stands.

From Eddie:
Thank you for visiting. This site is dedicated to exposing the Mind Control, Manipulation, Deception, Spiritual and Emotional Abuse, Heresy, Legalism (“Phariseeism”), and Authoritarianism behind the Independent Fundamental Baptist Denomination (IFB).

QUESTION: In one reply to a person, you said you only represent your experience at your church while growing up and not all the others, but your statement above does in fact state that you claim all are the same.

Saying all IFB churches are abusive and heretical is a very STRONG statement. I guess you have ALL KNOWLEDGE and sit with God. You’ve become worst than your teachers of the IFB. You throw a mean swing against God’s institutions and vent with such venom that you don’t even see how you are worst then what you stand against.

In another area of your website you say you only attend HOME Studies.

1. Who is the pastor or elder or Bishop? The Apostle Paul uses all three terms.
2. Who are the Decons/Elders?
3. Who baptizes the believers?
4. Who takes up the offerings?
5. What are the offerings used for?
6. How many missionaries does your HOME Study support?
7. How are you carrying out the great commission?

The more I read your replies the more enjoyment I receive in watching how you contradict yourself in various areas as you offer your humanist views of NOT GOING TO CHURCH.

Act 14:23 And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.

Act 16:4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.

As Paul traveled, He ordained elders in every CHURCH. There is a new testament example of how God’s work is accomplished and it is never done outside the camp (O.T.) or outside the church (N.T.)

You really take the cake with your humanistic reasoning — you are as anti-Bible and Church as they come.

I really don’t expect these post to stay up, but I hope you really are as open as you claim.

From Eddie:
Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Under the laws, yes they were required. Under grace, the tithe is for our learning and a reference point. If they gave 10% under the blood of bulls and goats, what should we give under the blood of Christ?

Fancy churches, fancy pews, fancy song books… YES YES YES YES!

Hasn’t anyone every read what Solomon’s temple looked like? Have you not read what the covenant of the Ark was overlayed with? Churches today haven’t even gotten close to the magnificent of the temples of OLD. If nice costly churches are evil, well what will we do with SOlomon’s extravagant Temple?

Folks, this website is full of errors in thought and reasoning that offers no truth but just objection to everything that that has been the common in Church history.

Yes there are some churches out there with pastors who shouldn’t be pastoring — the 12 had Judas and the churches has their fair shares of Judas.

But the congregations have their fair share of those who withstood Moses, which was in the 1000?s a far great cry than the 0ne in twelve.

Watch what you say and remember how you say it. God takes great note in rebellious attitudes towards His Church and it’s elders. Jumping on any bandwagon for the sakes of jumping and complaining always has a way of biting back. Those murmuring saints in the O.T. learn that one the hard way. Just learn to LOOK and LIVE and lights will come on.

Get away from sites that just complain and rip the local church.

From Eddie:
Wow — I needed ONE reference for humanistic thinking and reasoning. I found it in you!

Not trying to be a joker but WOW, you bit the hook and ran off on every tangible lie of the Devil and offer no proof for truth, but just reasoning for being angry and backslidden.

I’m not even a Baptist, but see the flaws in all your reasoning.

You offer up the struggles you have with authority and that is the plain truth of the matter. The world is full of people like you who have gotten angry at commandments, and authorities and what it means to be in submission. Neighbors are full of angry Christians and no surprise since all think they have as much of the Spirit of God as God’s Elders, Pastors or Evangelist. If you know your Bible, one story should come to mind.

For now, be thankful for Grace and that you were not born in the O.T.

You are really really something. I enjoy reading for one reason and that is to show my flock what it means to be a humanist, to be a bitter Christian who never learned obedience.

Please keep your deception website up so others who know truth will have a reference point or maybe one day you will realize truth and at least have the wisdom to re-name it BaptistTruth so you could take a positive approach to winning the lost. Maybe you will even share with us what it means to be a GOOD Pastor and HOW God leads his chosen men in truth.

All those IFB folks that you so wickedly expose for getting the gospel out, building churches, sending missionaries,changing lives, etc. I wonder what you have DONE?

You mention something about being in the SBC, well I know hundreds of Pastors in those churches where you would not fit in either, so what’s the difference in SBC or IFB?

Any way, just a good read, don’t take time to respond.

1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

1Ti 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.

Moses as well as Paul had members like you. God judges well and takes note. You are left around for one purpose, which for you, is not for God’s Glory, but just as others who forsook God — you are the bait for the devils hook to catch others who also reject truth for humanism.

Enjoy your self for now, but on the judgement day we will see where your doctrines stand!

Thanks for the good laugh — Eddie

From Fred:
I should have mentioned in my previous comment that Aleister Crowley’s books are by far the most popular brand of “occult flavored BS” fed to Satanists as actual occultism. Note that his “magnum opus” is Magic in Theory and Practice, indicating that Satanism is disguised as black magic, at least in Crowley’s brand of occult-flavored BS for Satanists. His initial book, The Book of the Law, which is disguised as a revelation from a spiritual being, provides hints of the true nature of Satanism/SRA, such as the following:

We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world…. I am the Snake that giveth Knowledge & Delight and bright glory, and stir the hearts of men with drunkenness. To worship me take wine and strange drugs whereof I will tell my prophet, & be drunk thereof! They shall not harm ye at all. It is a lie, this folly against self. [This is another aspect of Satanism: drunken orgies designed to cultivate abandonment to animal impulses, and an initial form of possession.]
King! Love one another with burning hearts; on the low men trample in the fierce lust of your pride, in the day of your wrath. Ye are against the people, O my chosen!
If Will stops and cries Why, invoking Because, then Will stops & does nought. If Power asks why, then is Power weakness. Also reason is a lie; for there is a factor infinite & unknown; & all their words are skew-wise. Enough of Because! Be he damned for a dog! [I.e., don’t ask too many questions.]
Mercy let be off: damn them who pity! Kill and torture; spare not; be upon them!
Drag down their souls to awful torment: laugh at their fear: spit upon them!
There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt. [end of excerpts] [“Do what thou wilt” = “abandon yourself to your lower impulses.”]

In another case, Satanism is disguised as philosophy: that of Nietzsche. Much of Nietzsche’s writings was inspired by certain Angels allied with Satan, and some essentially written by them using Nietzsche as a stenographer. His general message is that everyone is contemptible, and that we should abandon ourselves to our impulses and make up our belief system to “justify” doing so. Nietzsche was the original “prophet” of the New Age, but this has been swept under the rug. Crowley was one of his fans. So, Nietzsche is a key figure in modern Satanism.

Another variety of occult-flavored BS is found in the works of H.P. Blavatsky, who acted as a channel for some corrupt anti-Christian, anti-Jehovah-ian occult groups residing in India at the time. Her works have been used as fodder for various New Age “shell groups.” They were never never meant to be understood – much like Satanist Albert Pike’s Freemasonic “theology,” but just to “baffle ‘em with BS.”

From Fred:
It is obvious to me that the IFBC is Satanism hiding behind a facade of sanctimony. The essence of Satanism is SRA, where the “ritual” is to be understood in the sense of being repetitive or routine. It takes many, many forms and can be anything from innocuous to horrific. Its purpose is to open the souls of its practitioners to demonic possession, if they pursue it with sufficient devotion, but it appears to me that they are told that it’s intended to give them occult powers, which explains Harry Potter as a means of recruiting suckers. Of course, motive is complex, and they might be doing it for other reasons, such as to get in good with “wizards” who can provide them with creature comforts.

Satanism itself (i.e. what the vast majority of Satanists believe) is “occult-flavored” BS – it is not occultism proper, by which I mean the Mysteries. The Mysteries are absolutely secret, or “occult,” to outsiders, except those portions which have been made available to the public as mankind has become more capable of receiving them. However, a great deal is still strictly hidden, i.e. “occult.” A lot of it is incomprehensible to most people anyways – based on the difficulty of understanding some of what has been released to the public. (See The Rudolf Steiner Archive as an example of actual Mystery teachings that have been made public.)

Black magic (which is not the same as Satanism despite what Satanists might like to believe) contains actual occult secrets, but obtained through improper channels and used for evil purposes. In order to obtain these secrets, it is necessary to do unspeakable things which imbue the perpetrator with the desire to use the subsequently-revealed secrets for evil purposes. This is not the same as possession, although I don’t know exactly what it is. Black magic is actually more evil than Satanism, and Satanism can be thought of as a sort of subsidiary of black magic.

Then there are the shell-organizations which Satanism creates as a facade, and as a means of abusing people. The members of these shell-organizations are well-meaning but bamboozled. This is what the IFBC is. Scientology, Wicca, and Freemasonry are more examples of this sort of shell-organization. Part of the abuse inflicted on the members of these “shells” takes the form of lying.

From Elizabeth:
Paul was called, but Paul isn’t Jesus. Paul is appalling in his boundaries. Jesus isn’t bound by space/time/misogynism.

From Vernon:
Woman, I find your attacks against IFB churches blatantly hypocritical and admonish you to repent yourself and follow the truth..i.e. John 7:17
In other words , the reason you are mislead is because you ,perhaps, found God’s will and didn’t agree with His discriminative viewpoints. Which , I believe, is where you are stumbling with. God does discriminate and He does so to , for one , cause jealousy..Opening the door to the gentiles created jealousy for the Jews for example.
Again , He discriminates against woman. Woman to keep silent in the churches for example.
He discriminates against races. Abraham told Eliezer not to take a wife for his son Isaac from the philistines..Esau did and we both know it caused grief to both his parents..Ishmael took a wife from a Hamite which things grieved his parents also…
So, seeing these things can’t be spoken against (or refuted) how about you repent and change your cause..Cause a foolish woman plucketh down her house..ok ?

From Thomas:
The problem is since the 50 s The IFB Churches have been turned over to Pastors that are not true IFB Pastors in there belief, thay are from the old Baptist faith and in other cases some from Churches of Christ and other types of churches. The true IFB Churches Believe in the truth of the bible not on tradition like other churches do. They hold to the the 1611 KJV as the only Bible. For what the KJV Bible says do not add or take away from this book haveing studied these other so called bibles and done the research on them verse by verse you see right off that they leve off a lot of inporent words and in some cases whole verses out which in the true translation of the KJV sayes not to do. Haveing been on a pulpit committee it became clear right of the bat. We had over 150 Pastors send in resumes for an IFB church saying they were IFB Pastors and only 20 were of them were of True IFB faith and some of the rest of them were not even close to metting the qualifications for a Pastor as laid out in any of the Bibles that are out there. The reason for this confusion is that churches in the 50’s took what Pastors that were there at the time insted of waitting for God to send them the right IFB Pastor for their church that in turn is what has led to the IFB churches to be so differnt and so meny of them being tought like other baptist churches and others types of churches. The fuundamental in IFB means that the IFB takes the KJV as it is written and dose not add ore take awy from it. They teach on the Bible and and what it says not tradition like other churches do, true IFB churches belive that members of others churches will and I mean will go to heaven to as long as they belive in Christ and ask him to forgive them for there sins and what he did on that Cross for all man kind this is where the IFB is differnt from other Churches. as other Churches teach that if you dont go to there type of Church you are going to hell. As for finding a true IFB Church near you, you have the KJV to go by, in it, it says be ware of false prophets for you shall know them by there works and their works will show. The other problem is that these orther churches use the new dictionary to translate the Bible and that is where they run into trouble if you are going to translate the Bible you need to use a book that has the meaning of the words at the time In 1611 when The Bible was written when you do this you see right off the differences that is being tought, that is why these others types of Pastors and Churches tell there members to use only the items and verces that they point out ore use other people that belive like them and when you ask about somthing that some other Pastor said they love to use the verse beware of false prophets but dont tell there members the rest of the verse so you will fallow them and what they teach Instead of the truth

Post from Ronald Tumuro on the “About This Site” page:
I have a very serious question for you and hopefully you can anser this. I know two people who were protestant until the day a preacher new to the town waltzed his way in by knocking on the front door and intoducing his church. He had been on the staff at a uncredited bible college that practices in the IFB Beleif. Since this time (3 Years) these people refuse to go to Disney world because it is ungodly, they claim the bible has predicted that our current president is taking the country to hell.

I say thank God for the IFB, because I dint understand the word of God until I read a King James Bible. I belonged to a Pentecostal NIV church for 3 years until I finally realized I was being deceived by a phony bible and then deceived by emotionalism and experience exalting the Holy Spirit. The History behind the modern versions and the people who put them out are NOT of God. We should live strict to the bible. its the WORD of God. Imagine Jesus Christ compromising his own word just so that he wouldn’t take so much criticism. Imagine Jesus Christ being called a legalist because he taught us not to live by bread alone but by EVERY Word of GOD. I think your website is bashing the IFB. These websites are designed for those who want to have a little worldly fun without all the guilt. I say your weak in the faith and need to pray harder are read harder and subject your flesh to the spirit and then maybe you wont have theses Satanic influences confusing you and bashing what’s right.

Post from Gerry on the “About This Site” page:
you are totally freak my friend….im not a member of IFB but im fundamentalist baptists….maybe you are sleeping while your pastor speak to sunday school or preached in a worship service…you fell abused or you have a crisis identity…or you felt neglected..there is no abuse in fundamental baptist nor brain washing in the church…everyone is entitled to have each own a holy BIBLE and read it.if you are not convinced to doctrine,you are free to go to another church.no one forced you stay in the church.you are one of tares among the wheats….where is the abused….wake up my friend maybe your still dreaming..

Email from George Tedder:
From reading about you it sounds like to me that your problem first is that your not saved or born again. Second, You were just a rebellious little female dog(b—-h) when you were being raised by some good God fearing parents. God doesn’t force himself on anyone. You had a choice and now you must live with it. May God have mercy on your evil soul.

hi my name is lizzy that was not an idependent fundemental baptist church we believe salvation through christ is the oly way to heaven and if you must judge then let me speak what you said hurts me but im not angry with you im angry that they did that instead of reading their bibles. we try our best to follow the bible and just because its noyt in neon red doesnt mean God doesnt want you o do it now holding hands is not a sin but it is a standard if you violate you just now opened the door to sin and well there is an extreme but i would rather be extreme then have a messed up life and sir next time you join a church that long please dont join just to critize

This is a funny website. It ranks up there with that website ‘Obama for President’ and ‘Door Knobs for the Homeless’. Do you live in your Mom’s basement? Now don’t get mad at me, I go to a non-denom church.


Maaaan, you know there is such thing in the web like search engine, http://google.com if you don’t, go there to understand why this post is bull@#$%

From: Vladimir Icorikov
Subject: Hillarians

Message Body:
TOPIC: Hillarians

Only the brain-dead would not perceive that the vain attempt by the demonic media and associated conspirators to violate God’s obvious patriarchal human-authority-structure intentions (e.g. Leviticus 27:1-5, Ecclesiastes 7:26-28, Isaiah 3:12, Nahum 3:13, First Corinthians 11:1-16 and 14:33-38, First Timothy 2:11-15, First Peter 3:7) by campaigning for Hillary to become President is arrogant thumbing-their-nose and uplifted-third-finger satanically-chauvinistic exhibitionism.

Noteworthy it will be to watch (and experience) the Lord’s retaliatory response against them and theirs.

Genuine Christians and their patriarchy-espousing Bible verses are not misogynous woman-haters….they just despise feminist-sexist, notoriously-non-qualified, scandals-laden, national-security-irresponsible Hillarians who want women to have authority over men.

Any church, synagogue, mosque, or temple – any leadership of which does not discriminate against but instead tolerates inclusive cultural diversity of feminist sexist, warm-weather immodestly-misattired, homogay effeminate, same-gender homosodomy-unions-licensing pseudo-“marriage” advocates, transgendered or transsexuals, transvestites, abortionists, evolutionists, and/or boycott-Israel antisemitic – must promptly have their tax-exempt status revoked.

– http://confrontation.faithweb.com/hilykily.htm


  1. let God be true and every man a liar amen

  2. James, that’t he kind of attitude that turn people away first of all, and those IN the church are afraid to question and to “prove all things”. Regardless of how right a church may be, EVERY church is ran by human beings. Humans are fallible and prone to mistake. No one is perfect and no church is perfect. God TELLS us to question and to prove ALL things. Even the things the preacher says. The problem with your attitude and the attitude of the church is that people are scared to question for fear of being turned away or laughed at or being told they are being rebellious and need to repent. The Bible tells us over and over and over and over again numerous times to study for ourselves. Study doesn’t mean daily devotions, it means studying. Learning what the Bible teaches about subjects and doctrines in context. Reading ALL the scriptures on each subject, not just asking the preacher or reading a little Baptist doctrine pamphlet. What absolutely turns me off is when I am doing a Bible study and finding that the Bible contradicts what i’ve been taught, and when i present it to another IFB member for questioning, they don’t even hear me out. The attitude is to immediately turn away from ANYTHING contrary to Baptist doctrine. That, my friend, is not what God teaches us to do. If what we believe is true that no amount of studying it is going to prove otherwise. Fact, there are verse in the KJV Bible that contradict what we’ve been taught. If the Bible does not contradict itself, we must look at it as a whole and see what it’s really saying and if we are wrong we need to admit we are wrong. God cannot speak to us if we arn’t open minded to His word. The Bible isn’t a buffet to pick and choose what verses fit our doctrines and which ones don’t. A bigger problem imo is IFB members wanting to hold onto tradition moreso than truth. I understand how hard it is to let go of a belief you have held onto for you entire life, but you have to get to the place where you are willing to let go of everything and everyone i exchange for what is the truth. I would rather know the truth and let God speak to me through His word than turn away from the Holy Spirit when i read a verse contrary to what i’ve always believed for fear of doubting or rebellion or not submitting to authority bs.

    Just for example, if you go to the Bible and JUST the Bible, you will find that the idea of a secret rapture, ie see Left Behind series, is not in the Bible. The idea that we have a soul that leaves our body when we die, that we go straight to heaven or hell upon death, that the wicked will suffer unspeakable torment for ceaseless ages, none of that is in the Bible. Yes you can find verse to twist and misrepresent that give that impression. and btw i know that’s like a humongo pill to swallow, but if you read the Bible for exactly what it teaches, erasing preconceived ideas, you will find the truth. Doing so does not mean a person is turning away from God and needs to repent. Searching out the truth does not mean a person is trying to justify their sin. that sounds more like bullying from someone who is trying to convince themselves they are right when they don’t truly know what they believe.

    rhetorial question, on the subjects you consider the need for the author to repent and the ones i mentioned for that matter, when is the last time you sat down with your Bible and a concordance, no pastor, no baptist doctrine booklets, and done a thorough search on EVERY verse on these subjects? i think it’s safe to say you havn’t. which is exactly what GOd tells us to do repeatedly so it would seem you are the one here that might could use some repenting 🙂

  3. Hi James wow, repent? of what? show me where these folks who have been victims of abuse have sinned? Please, see you sounds like my old IFBC pastor.

    we had a case in our IFB church where another IFB pastor comes to our church, family of 13 home schooled children in tow. Nice enough folks right? have three children that were autistic. The family asked for other young girls to take a class and come over to their house and teach their autistic ones, (CREEPY) Pastor becomes buddy buddy with our pastor its a jolly old time. Then lo and behold new pastor guy disappears, come to find out new pastor dude has been sexually molesting his children, hes in jail. His name is Bruce Detlaff and this happened in La Crosse, WI for real, Look it up in the Tribune. Guess who finds herself and her children tossed head over heals out into the cold for divorcing her pig of a husband? You guessed it this poor lone mother of 13 kids 3 of which are autistic.

    Im no longer a member of an IFB church and this experience with many others like it is why. Not because of my sin. but cause of the sins of others. believers can and do fall into sin, thats for sure romans 6 but when the whole church body reeks of the stank of sin the Holy Spirit isn’t working in the lives and hearts of those people. And he prolly isn’t working in their hearts and lives because they deny his active working today. they deny that he can speak and actually indwell your life. they deny that he still works through signs and wonders and tongues and the interpretation of tongues. SO yeah thats why I left and wont be back…. these churchs alot of times are FILLED with sin, hidden sins, abuse, child abuse…its sad… if the light that is in you is darkness how great is that darkness.

  4. Im a member of an IFBC. I am because I chose to be after trying many other denominations, most of the others I’ve tried were not by choice but as I was groing up I went where my parents went. Somethings I consider when looking for a church home are: Do they preach from the Bible? Is the true gospel given? Is leadership in biblical order? Is their focus on “Abstain from all appearance of evil”, for the cause of Christ? Is sound Doctrine held in high regard? I find all these in my IFBC–they’re not perfect but, in my opinion, for the most part, on the most important issues, they’re right on. Alot of what I see on these posts appears to be people trying to justify their own sin so they can feel ok about what they’re doing. Sad… Repent.

  5. all people haved their own inner struggles of life…..church are composed of complex people that saved by graced only and only God’s gift to offer..what fundamental churches teaches only God’s will for his children.it depends upon to christian members to obey or not.baptist is champion in democracy in the church..remember the baptist acrostic..if you know that…..there is no website like this….. if you know the baptist primary doctrine…there is no website like this…

  6. I don’t understand why the fundamental Baptist need to write the same old dogma that this site obviosly takes issue with, if God didn’t want us to question, then he wouldn’t have given us a brain. I take issue with non-believers making fun of believer, but I also have a real problem with the holier-then-thou attitude of fundamentlist . It’s this attitude that keeps people from believing in God, they look at these people and want no part of it. God is love, he understands our personal issues, people respond to what makes sense to their lives. The IFB church isn’t about Gods love, its about controlling people. My parents still go to a IFB church, I disagree with what they believe, yet I think they have the right to believe and live their lifes as they wish-
    I also expect them to respect me and my beliefs, and to let me live my life as I wish. We talk religion often, but we do not preach at each other .

  7. Manda,
    It’s going to get better. The world is a BIG place. Please don’t confine yourself to a tiny little bubble of the Independent Fundamental Baptist Church. You have so much to see. I’m in my twenties and thought if I stuck with the IFB just to please those around me and ignore what my heart tells me…I’d miss out on so much. I know of so many people who look back on their lives and regret wasting away opportunities to see so much more. Here are some examples of what they have been missing out on:

    1.) traveling – you can’t do that if you are expected to be in church 3x a week.

    2.) music – this world would be mono-toned without the various genres of music (Sinatra, rock, classical)…all of which you are not allowed to listen to in the IFB.

    3.) MEETING NEW PEOPLE – this world is full of beautiful people who don’t judge you for not wearing a stuffy long floral skirt. You’ll be amazed at how much bigger your eyes and mind will grow by enriching your life with people from different backgrounds. The IFB church does not allow you to mingle with the rest of the world.

    …so just some thoughts my dear. Don’t be afraid to try new things. I know it’s daunting at first, but every new experience is a little scary…especially if you’ve been in a bubble. Don’t cut ties with the fam…just tell them what you feel in your heart.

    Also, I know how easy it is to do the complete opposite of what you’ve been told not to do (heavy drinking, partying, etc). Use your judgment and know your limit.

  8. Hello. I was born and raised (18 years) in an IFB church. Homeschooled, wore skirts, church twice on Sundays, once on Wednesday. And so many times inbetween. Marriages were arranged, if they happened at all, and every couple had to go through the pastor, because the pastor will ALWAYS know what YOUR heart and mind want. And any marriage, or relationship has to be with two people in the church. Many IFB churches are racist. They raise their girls to focus on cooking, cleaning, sewing, taking care of children, not spending too much time on education. Once the girls are done with school, they are encouraged to marry, or go away to bible college to find a husband. Rarely do they seek a higher level of education.

    I was never allowed to go to the movies, be alone with a boy in a car, go to a dance, listen to rock music, go to public school, hangout with friends who wer enot “saved”, wear pants. My Facebook and email account was always monitered by my mother. Even my phone. I worked and went to community college, I had to be home right after work and school, anytime that was left unaccounted for was scrutinized.

    I was 18 when I left. It was the hardest thing I had ever done in my life. My family was all that I knew. I had very few friends from church. ALL that I knew was from my family, every thought, oppinion everying. I had to leave everything behind. Being on my own, everyday conflicts and situations come up, I’ll say or think something, and stop. Was that me or my parent’s/church’s oppinion or mine? Do I really have an oppinion? When I left I didn’t know what right or what was wrong. All I knew was all of the lies and hypocrisy that I wanted nothing to do with anymore. I started drinking, going out with guys, I didn’t have any value of myself or anyone. It’s been seven months of emotional hell and reality, and I still don’t know who I am. Every single day I think about moving back home with my family, and letting my life just being controlled. It’s so safe and comfortable, and what I’ve always known. I can’t go to my house now at all. My brother (who was my bestfriend, only friend), just glares at me the whole time. On the chance that he will say anything it’s just something hateful. My dad criticizes my life, and what I’m wearing. I broke my mom’s heart when I left. I miss my mom so much. Sometimes I don’t know how much longer I can go on like this. But I’ve come so far, I won’t go back now.

    I didn’t want much of anything to do with God for a few months. But then I started going to an E-Free church. They’re accepting, open minded, no rules. SO different from what I come from. I’ve been going there for awhile, it’s going well, but I’m still scared.

    Right now, I’m trying to figure out what’s right for me, what’s the norm and how to deal with it. I am a person, not my family’s person and not my church’s person. I can’t really explain what I went through my whole life, people don’t understand, and I don’t expect them too.

    Thank you so much for this website. It has given me great hope.


    1. I will be keeping you in prayer Manda. My name is Lynnette. I’m a single Black woman (about 41) not your age but not so far removed that I dont recall it. I’ve nver been married or had a family, my mom died when I was a teen (grandma) & my dad abandoned my life prior to birth, as well as biological mom is MIA. My sisters were not saved & I’m not sure they are now but they attend a unGodly I believe church fellowship that doe snot teach Gods word I believe & both condone living in sin (sex before marriage, etc). I know how it feels to feel lonely & desiring the support & love of love dones. I’ve been on my own since I was a teen too but at when in unrighteousness…I had people who supported & were network for me. I met more friendlier & seemingly loving people who were unsaved than in Christ! This walk is hard esp when you are alone. I’been savedfor about 10 years & committed to living holy (no premaritial relations, being obedent to Christ) striving & desiring a church family. The choices I made in my walk cost me a relatisonship (I was glad to give up, etc). I can really relate even though our situations ar edifferent to trying to live this walk alone. First of please know that God loves you. Know the God of the Bible by reading His word, praying to Him & fellowshipping with Him. Seek His call & purporse & know that you have faith in Jesus & not in people, denomination or even relationships. This is possible trhu Gods grace! Pray for & forgive most of all the sins your family & others committed (whether thier sorry or not). This is not an option if you want to live a victorious Christian life. Next, seek (really) Gods kingdom & His righteousness first! Ask God for His plan & purpose for you in Christ & He will get you thier. He will I believ replace or subsitute & can also heal but know that you are your own person in Christ & He is your Everything & will supply all your needs accrding to His riches. Keep in a nuturing & loving & Biblical Church fellowship. That has been my goal & as the days get wickeder it sharder & harder.

      I just joined unknowingly I think an a IFB church & they dont seem like much of what I read on the sites b…much more lax at least the pastor & the church is comprised of many people. But I’ve noticed a large element of the church women that wear only skirts, also last Sunday in a local class taught by the Asst Pastor (who is very Godly I believe & has a real heart for souls) one topic came up on insecurtie & makeup was a point in the lesson recently. One man said aloud “makeup” like “yeah teach on that” & the Asst pastor stressed makeup was not wrong but overly done makeup was a sign of insecurity. I agrred with him (incl about hey I’m from down south & we like a bit of makeup)…but what took me by suprised was the brother in the crowd being vocal to this point. I thought to mysel…’what kind of man is aganist makeip unless he is really legalistic, insecure, etc’ and I remembered this site & though…wait a minute is this a cultic?

      Also…I’m a very friendly & talkative person but I noticed some people not very friendly towards me incl initially this same pastors wife. I was not sure if it was woman thing, or race, the fact that I’m single & I’ve been told very very pretty & some people seem to think that an attractive unmarried woman is a tempataion & should be married, etc or maybe people considered me divorced (although I’ve never been married) but if so that would not be right.

      For example, I went to Visiting & Outreach Saturday to Evangelize & visit those who missed church & it was not many people thier in ratio to the huge church , so that I was very interested in such things would seem to be a bonus…but no one basically spoke to me (women wise) but a Hispanic couple & then after a gantlemen. The pastors wife came over but it seemed she was doing it out of obligation & I can imagine if I read it correct then it’s probally hard to have to meet everyone when it may not be your forte…I’m kinda very shy around new people & have to make an effort so I understand that. But it just seemed like I was not ‘welcolmed’. I did not know if it wa sthe enemy messing with my head, if b/c I was the only woman with slacks (I had a long top that could be a mini dress that went over it in case). Even wehen I said hi to the Asst pastor that really helped me wife who class I was in she even was still very aloof. I just ‘felt’ it was not very friendly or at least to me & that made me wonder…is this cultic? It wasn’t until I went out with the Asst Pastors wife one on one & esp after she realized I really wanted to help out that we connected. Maybe she just wa snot aware of what kind of person I was & she I’m sur ehad a lot on her mind always being involve din so much. Its kinda hard reading people & its tough when you come somewhere new & don’t know anyone…so I was thankful that it worked out & looked forwrd to being a blessing & helping the teen sthat day.

      However…I met some women that were really really nice. I had started to wonder after reading stuff on here. But I recalled how I met a couple of very nice ladies there as well. Mostly, I wanted to keep being where the Bible preached & read reguarly. Except for tithing (which I personally support in my own way & made a commitment with God prior to this church even when not in a aregular fellowship, I think hes preaches straight from the Bible. I say maybe Tithing b/c although I support it I’m still not sure if its a command as other commands are & I believe they, as well as, many Churches teach it.

      In my church family quest…personally I found that far in between…either a church was very friendly & not Biblical sound or Biblically sound but not loving. Jesus was both. I also find that churches that are getting the Gospel out satan works harder to mess up & when peoples hearts are not wlaking right & they give the enemy an inch (social classism, racisim, sexism, etc are just cliche’s for sin)…then he’ll reign in that area. This is a form of spitual warfare intermixed with sin issues that we as Christians must repent of as with any sin. Note also when I say sexism…I dont mean authority. I believe the whole word of God regarding role sof men & women, women submitting to husbands, also equal submission, role of Pastor, etc. But I mean not seeing women as one should…EQUAL but DIFFERENT. Christ submits to Father but is EQUAL in deity. The Holy Spirit points to Christ I believe but is till God. Children obey parents but are still EQUAL in personhhood. God blessed mankind I believe to reprsent in many parrlell ways Himself & we are to celebrate & not abuse one another! Now back to where I was…

      Churches that are lax on the Word of God in my opinon are not under the same spirtual warfare, just as Non-Christians are not. That is why we mus pray, repent & be in fellowship with the Lord. Well its a point to all of this…here it goes

      Saturday (yesterday)my vehicle just broke down when I was on my way to help out the Asst Pastors wife with the Banquet. I walked into a local regular Baptist church here in my neighboohod in walking distance to & to my very, very pleasant suprised they were both…Very Biblically Sound-Focused on teaching & uplifting the word of God it seems & also very, very friendly (both women & men) & I felt like I could feel the love of Jesus unlike before friendly & like a family…Bingo! It was what I wanted & was searching for but just much much smaller. Now I’m in a dilema…stay where I joined last month (keeping commitment) or is God telling me it’ a better way?
      Being in this walk alone…we need others esp when you have no family or unGodly family & its so vital to me that I find a Biblical~Loving & Nuturing Church enviroment to be a blesisng to, as well as, bless. You never know what doors God may open. Be encouraged & sorround yourself with genuially Godly (walk & talk) examples who love God & His word & don’t want to diminish it nor add to it! I’ll be praying for that & ask others who may viw this to do so. Please also (any saint) pray that I make the decison God desires. May the good LORD bless & keep you eternally in Lord Yeshua (Jesus in Hebrew). Blessings…sis Lynnette from Maryland!

      1. Hi Lynne – Welcome, I have read all of your comments and you seem like a wonderful and sincere christian woman. I especially like your standing on the Word of the Lord, this is absolutely the key in living a successful life in Christ.

        I fully understand your concern in reference to which body of believers you should worship/serve with. Were I you, and felt lead to stay with the 2nd smaller group, I wouldn’t hesitate to do just that, of course you could speak to someone in the (other) church to let them know of your decision.

        Just as there is no command for new testament believers to tithe, there is nowhere (that I know of in scripture) where folks are commanded to “join” a church. You will find that many “traditions” in our churches are simply that, traditions, and have no biblical authority. Let me say that traditions aren’t necessarily bad, just understand they are traditions and not a biblical mandate. Remember as well what the scriptures say about traditions of men.

        At any rate, I can feel your love of Jesus coming right through my computer, you have blessed my soul today!

        In Christ
        Greg (your neighbor in VA)

    2. You are so brave and strong! Just be sure in yourself and know that you made the right choice. pray for your family to open their eyes. I will keep you in my prayers. My heart goes out to you. You are more than welcome to email me if you need someone to talk to. (txabarn****) i was raised like you and graduated from HAC. ….aaaaand now my kids awake lol…. i would love to hear from you though. i’m just stepping away from all of it myself.

  9. It’s ironic that people so full of GOD’s love can write so mean. If the true is so painful then stay away from internet, “like pastor says”. You know he said that, while demanding more offerings and putting down our president. Sorry for trying to sould sarcastic but I’ve head so many sermons that are about money and works and standards.Think Jesus got lost in there somewhere.Oh, and why is it that if someone disagree with your opinion that they’re not “really” saved.

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